Transcript 0:00 [on-hold music] So many people's work is disconnected from the people who are truly gonna benefit from that work. 0:10 You know, we go into the creative cave or we go into the product development cave, and it becomes all about the widgets and the stuff and the plans, and we forget that there are real people who are going to be better off by the, you know, projects that we complete. 0:24 And if we don't complete those projects, those people are going to be in the same state that they were. So, you know, in this world, we either deliver delight or we solve problems. Sometimes we do both. 0:38 [upbeat music] Welcome back to The Peggy Smedley Show, the podcasting voice of IoT and digital transformation. [upbeat music] So welcome back to The Peggy Smedley Show. 0:52 My next guest is the founder of Productive Flourishing, a company that helps professional creatives, leaders, and change makers take meaningful, meaningful action on work that matters. 1:03 Please welcome Charlie Gilkey, author of Start Finishing: How to Go From Idea to Done. Charlie, welcome to the show. Peggy, thanks so much for having me. I'm pumped to be here. Well, you know, let's talk about it. 1:18 You've got, uh, there's a lot of books on productivity, so I'm, uh, kinda curious, uh, why you decided to start this one. Let's, let's talk about it. 1:28 Well, one of the reasons I started it is because, um, with Productive Flourishing, I have, you know, just a lot of people coming to me asking questions about productivity and how to get the right stuff done. 1:38 And so I figured since they're already coming to me, might as well write the book on it. 1:41 But above that, so, um, what I've noticed is that productivity books especially tend to be super nitty-gritty and talk about tasks and maybe next actions and, you know, maybe a little bit of time management stuff. 1:52 But for most of us, where the rubber really hits the road is finishing projects and the ones that truly matter. 1:59 And so I think many of us have done the work of, you know, creating the to-do list and really having our schedules figured out, but then we get to the end of the week and said, "You know what? 2:09 Th-these projects that really matter, I didn't push them forward. They're still just waiting to get done." 2:15 And so since our livelihoods for so many of us creative professionals depends on our ability to take ideas, convert them into products, and get 'em in-- get 'em done, I decided I'd write a book that, that has a lot of that in it, um, so that we can go beyond just being to-do list ninjas and actually doing those projects. 2:33 So they're gonna build that bridge between our current reality and the life we want to live and the work we want to do. 2:41 And it's interesting you talk about that because a lot of people sh- as you described, struggle with that. 2:45 Is there something you just f-found out about yourself that you excel in, that you say, "Look, there's a lot of people that excel at certain things. 2:53 This is something I find that I excel at," by after you wrote this book, say, "Wow, I've really f-discovered something about myself"? Yes. 3:02 Um, part of [chuckles] what makes me work super well is that I'm, you know, I'm gonna give a chess analogy, is that back when I used to play chess as a kid, I would normally not start out and open really strong, um, but my mid-game and long game was super strong. 3:16 And so what I've noticed about me is like I can fumble around and make a bunch of false starts and just not show up well in the very beginning, but being able to stick through a project, through the middle and through the end... 3:27 And you know, the reality is, Peggy, what so many people count as the end of the project is just, like, barely getting towards the, the beginning of the end. 3:35 And so being able to play that out is just one of those strengths that, that I've had that's kept me in business and kept me doing this for so long. 3:42 See, but that's an unusual art, uh, gift, because some people who get stuck have a very difficult time, or it takes them a very long time to get unstuck. 3:52 So if someone starts a project and they feel like, "I, I can't get through it," you know, like, you know, for me, like writer's block, you know. 3:58 I might be able to get through it or I've got a, you know, I know how to get myself through it. How do you get someone, help them with a project to get unstuck? Are there some tips, advice you help someone with that? 4:09 Yeah, there are a few things to look at here. So one is... And I'm gonna pose it to you this way, Peggy. 4:14 Um, we don't need a major productivity system or accountability buddies, and we don't need major hacks to eat ice cream or whatever your favorite dessert is, right? We have ice cream in front of us. 4:25 We eat it, we enjoy it, and we're done. We only really need a lot of that... 4:29 Well, we need a lot of that for projects and tasks that we really don't like or that we built up such a negative story, um, I call it head trash in the book. 4:38 We put so much head trash around our projects and our work that it just takes so much emotional labor to get into it. 4:44 So one of the tricks is to figure out where the ice cream, where the meaning, where the joy is in the project, and you might find a different orientation around it. 4:53 The second reason people really get stuck is because they, um, take on too big of a project, and they don't chunk it down into parts that are more easy for them to do. 5:03 For instance, if, especially with creative projects, because they can range from quarter-sized to year-sized projects, and it just always seems like you're making little nibbles at it, but not getting forward. 5:15 But when you break it down into either, you know, fifteen-minute tasks that you might do or two-hour blocks, I call them focus blocks, where you can really sit down, dive into the project, and you break the project down, thinking in terms of focus blocks and little mini milestones, then you can get back into it, and it doesn't feel like you woke up, 5:33 rolled around on the mat with all of the, you know, creative demons and everything like that and lost. It's like, no, I-- there was some rolling, but there's also some winning, and I can put that into the bag there. 5:43 And the third piece that I would say is so many people's work is disconnected from the people who are truly gonna benefit from that work. 5:52 You know, we go into the creative cave, or we go into the product development cave, and it becomes all about the widgets and the stuff and the plans, and we forget that there are real people who are going to be better offBy the, you know, projects that we complete, and if we don't complete those projects, those people are going to be in the same state that they were. 6:10 So, you know, in this world, we either deliver delights or we solve problems. Sometimes we do both. So whatever problem you're trying to solve... Go ahead. 6:21 No, I was gonna say, doesn't it depend if you're working in a group? 6:25 You know, I, I think you call it like a pack, or you're working individually, because if you're working individually, you know, by the end, your end result affects an organization. 6:34 If you're working in a group, that trickle effect that you just described is affecting a lot of people to the end result. 6:40 So does your mindset have to change depending on who you're working with and how that end result affects other people? I don't know that that's super significant. Um, I think they need to be real people, though. 6:52 Um, and so that's, I think sometimes what happens in, in organizations is that we get so far removed from the people we actually benefit that we can't imagine them in a way, and it, it just, um, it doesn't have that soul or it doesn't have that life to it. 7:06 And so I think getting closer to those people or having people that are, might be really interested in, and it might be so that, you know, if you're at work and you're building some technology, like you may not have access to the end user, but you may have friends or friends of friends who might like that, and just being able to talk to them about that and see what it would do for them and remember that that person is going to be better off and gonna enjoy what you're doing can sometimes just get you back into the game. 7:32 Are there any tricks to help us do our best work, you know, to help us achieve the best o-of ourselves? 7:40 Yeah, well, I use best work in a very specific way because, you know, unfortunately, work has, for many of us, become a four-letter word, much like the other curse words in our language, and, um, we wanna get away from it, we wanna minimize it, we don't wanna do it, so on and so forth. 7:53 But I think there's a certain type of work, it could be your creative work, it could be your community work, it could be the work of your life, that we would put as in that best work category. 8:02 Um, and so one of the things that we have to do is really understand that when it comes to our best work, we're actually going to thrash, and by thrash, I mean that meta work, that flailing, that emotional labor, the quote, unquote research that's all around the work, but doesn't actually move the work forward. 8:22 Um, and it turns out that the more something matters to us, the more we'll thrash, and this is counterintuitive for people because they think, like, if it truly matters for you, they think it's supposed to be more like that ice cream metaphor I gave earlier, but it's not. 8:36 It matters because if we fail, it's, we make it be about us, and we think it says something about us. 8:44 And, you know, we can talk further on, but also if we succeed, it can change our lives in ways that can make us uncomfortable. 8:50 So the first thing to know when you're doing your best work is to understand, or the first thing that to understand is that you're going to be uncomfortable, you're going to be thrashing, and there's nothing wrong with you, there's nothing wrong with the project. 9:03 It's just what happens when you start doing work that matters. The second thing that you gotta know is that when you start doing this type of work, you're likely gonna ruffle some feathers, right? 9:15 And you're likely going to have to really put up some good, strong boundaries and firewall your time so that other people's priorities and projects don't just always throw you off. 9:26 And I think the last thing to know about this type of best work is it falls within that time management matrix that some people have heard about, you know, the urgent and important, and then the urgent, or excuse me, the not important, or excuse me, the important and not urgent. 9:40 There's two other quadrants, but so much of this work is important but not urgent. So the two big, um- Hey, Charlie, we're out of time. Charlie, we're out of time. Okay. 9:49 But Charlie Gilkey, author of Start Fishing: How to Go From Idea to Done. What's your URL? So if you like the book, go to startfinishingbook.com, um, and you can download a free, um, chapter to see if it's for you. 10:03 All right, Charlie. Ne- We'll hope you'll come back, and we'll talk to you next time when you have another book. All right, listeners, that's all the time we have for the show today. 10:10 Remember, we are broadcast live every Tuesday from twelve PM Central. As always, this is The Peggy Smedley Show, the podcasting voice of IoT and digital transformation. 10:19 Remember, with great technology comes great responsibility. Have an awesome week. [upbeat music]
